Share of Heart: Why Customers Love Some Brands—and Forget the Rest

Why do customers develop lasting loyalty to some brands while forgetting others? In this episode of the B2B Brand180 Podcast, Linda Fanaras speaks with Warren Kornblum, former global CMO of Toys “R” Us, brand advisor, and author of Notes from the Brand-Stand, about how emotional connections, customer experiences, and brand trust influence purchasing decisions and long-term loyalty.

Discover why delivering on your brand promise matters more than simply increasing brand awareness, how inconsistencies between marketing and customer experience can weaken trust, and what businesses can do to build stronger customer relationships. Warren shares practical insights on brand loyalty, customer-first culture, employee alignment, and creating meaningful brand experiences that competitors can’t easily replicate.

Guest & Resources

Warren Kornblum | Brand Advisor & Former Global CMO of Toys “R” Us

Explore Warren’s work on brand loyalty, customer experience, and building emotional connections that drive lasting business growth.

• Share of Heart
• Connect with Warren Kornblum on LinkedIn
• Notes from the Brand-Stand by Warren Kornblum

Related Listening

Continue exploring brand loyalty, customer relationships, and competitive differentiation with these B2B Brand180 Podcast episodes:

• Share of Heart: Why Customers Love Some Brands—and Forget the Rest
• The Revenue Leaks Most Companies Never See

Explore All B2B Brand180 Episodes

More From Your Host, Linda Fanaras

Explore books by Linda Fanaras, CEO of Millennium Agency and host of the B2B Brand180 Podcast, on branding, business strategy, and professional growth.

• Claim Your White Space
• Passion + Profits

About Millennium Agency

Millennium Agency helps complex B2B companies clarify their positioning, strengthen their brands, and turn strategy into measurable growth.

Explore Millennium Agency

Full Episode Transcript

Linda: 

Welcome to the B2B Brand180 Podcast. I’m here with Warren Kornblum. And here’s a line that actually stopped me. “Customers do not buy what brands actually say. They buy what brands prove.” And my guest today ran marketing for Toys “R” Us at its peak. And then he watched an iconic beloved brand quietly lose the things that made people really, really love it. He has a name for what the survivors keep and the fallen brands lose. He calls it Share of Heart. And this is a conversation about one advantage your competitors cannot copy. So Warren, it’s great to have you here. 

Warren: 

Great to be with you, Linda. Thanks for having me. 

Linda: 

Absolutely. So let me set you up fast here. So you were the global chief marketing officer at Toys “R” Us. You are the CMO of Serta Simons Betting. And today you run shadow branding. So you have sat in the exact seat most of my audience is either in now or climbing toward. So I want to open where your thinking starts. So you argue that customers do not buy what a brand says, they buy what it proves. So in simple terms, it seems super easy, right? But it actually indicates most of what is happening in marketing departments, like how they’re spending their money and then how that translates into building brands. So can you unpack that a little bit for me? What does proof look like to you versus just saying it? 

Warren: 

Well, I think I always go back to that old expression. I guess it goes back to my dad’s time when he said, “Say what you do and do what you say.” And I think that as simplistic as that sounds, it really is. I find so many things that we as human beings do that brands should be taking lessons from or that are kind of the same that we do. It’s kind of dumbing it down a little bit, but I think sometimes that’s the best way to look at things. So if you say that you’re involved in community service and you’re philanthropic, well, it’s not just about writing a check. It’s about being there, being at events, being with people, supporting activity. And I think in that case, also empowering your people, depending on how large your organization is to also be involved in the community. 

It’s about if you say we’re customer friendly, well, don’t have someone sitting on a phone trying to go representative, representative, representative for three hours. I get efficiency needs to be there. Not everybody can answer a call personally, but there needs to be flags in a system that say, “If we’re saying we’re going to do something, then we need to make sure that our organization can follow through on that promise.” And you can go through other things other than just obviously customer service. If your target is moms with kids, as mine used to be at Toys “R” Us, well, make sure your change rooms are there. And that’s not even moms with kids anymore. It’s all parents. If you’re kid friendly, if you’re family friendly, it’s the little details that say they’re not just saying it, they’re doing it because I think the biggest disconnect is when there is a disconnect. 

So if you say something and then you don’t prove it or you don’t live it, then people say, “Whoa, they’re just not true. It’s not true.” 

Linda: 

Yeah, that makes total sense. So let me push on that right away because every single brand believes that it’s proving something and the bad ones and the great ones really both think that their messaging is backed up. So how does a leader actually tell the difference between a brand that’s actually proving itself and one that’s just louder about just taking the claim and trying to own the claim? So how would you tackle that? 

Warren: 

Well, as a leader, I can tell you what I do and what I advise all of my advisory clients to do. And that’s that the only thing that matters, I mean, you and I are both in the communication world and before my Serta Simmons and my Toys “R” Us, I was in the agency business for most of my career. When I advise people, I say, “You need to get where the customer is because we’re not the people that matter. We’re the people who purvey our goods and our services, but we’re not the ones that matter. The customer is what matters.” And knowing who your customer is, knowing how they feel about you, how they think, how they want to shop, what their aspirations are, and then making sure you deliver on those things. But in terms of your question about measurement, to me, I’ve always been a huge subscriber in what I used to call management by walking around. 

A lot of offices aren’t there anymore, so it’s not just walking around where your people are. It’s also, I advise leaders, if you have a customer service department, get on the phone, don’t talk, listen, listen to what people are saying to your people, listen to how your people are doing, looking at them. If you’re in the retail, physical retail business, spend time in the stores, talk to customers. I think that at the end of the day, the most important measurement of all is what your customers are thinking you’re doing and they’ll tell you if you find ways to do it. The old days of surveys, maybe not so much, but today it’s just so easy. One CEO I work with said to me, “I never thought about that. Just go into the call center and sit on the line.” I said, “Yeah, don’t handle the calls.” It’s not like, “Oh, I’m the CEO and I’m on the phone. Isn’t that wonderful?” Because that almost is a negative. But if it’s just listening to what’s going on and what people are saying, if it’s proof points that someone’s got a customer service issue. 

And one of the things that I’ll get off of this one, one of the things that shocked me when I was at Rooms To Go before Serta Simmons, they have a huge call center and they’re an extraordinarily well run company. They’re out of the Southeast, a leading home furnishings retailer. And when I first met the head of the call center, which was probably the best one, not the person, yes, the leadership, but also the call center itself, she said to me, “One of the things that is kind of anti-theoretical to call centers is they are measured on speed of dispensing with a call.” One and one’s making seven there. You’re trying to get rid of me, you’re not making me happy and feel like I’m important to you, right? 

Linda: 

Right. Yeah, no, that’s a great point. So we had talked about brand stand, so what a company actually stands for. So even when standing there isn’t super convenient for them, right? So that word inconvenience is doing the work. So most companies will stand for anything when it’s free and easy. They say things like that, great service and maybe this service isn’t so great. So walk me through what a real brand stand is, how a leader finds theirs, instead of just writing it on the wall and then how they actually live by that. So they can listen to calls, to your point. What are some of the other ways that they could really decide what their brand stand is and then stand by that? 

Warren: 

I think I would flip the question. I mean, the first thing is what’s the brand stand? Again, classic marketing, we always talk about positioning statements or slogans. That’s not a brand stand. That may be an articulation of the brand stand, but that’s not the brand standard. The brand stand to me is everything that a company stands for, to use that word again. It’s the DNA of the entire organization. It’s not the advertising, it’s just the entire operating philosophy of it. And I think that to answer your question, one other place, by the way, back to the last one, because it’s important, is that sitting on the website, watching what’s going on, the interaction, the chat rooms, there’s lots of ways that leaders, be they the top leader or people running departments, can actually see what the customer’s saying. 

So I think that the brand stand is really the DNA of the business. I mean, how customer centric are we? If we say we’re customer centric, that’s great, but everybody says I’m customer centric. Are you acting that way? Do customers feel that they’re the most important thing? Are your people empowered to look after them the way you say you’re going to look after them? The brand stand is the DNA of the business, it really is. 

Linda: 

Yeah. So here’s sort of a problem, and tell me if I’m wrong, because I think a lot of leaders here like brand stand and immediately they’re thinking, okay, that’s my mission statement, that’s my values poster, that’s the laminated card that we hand out to every single employee once they determine that how the company has to behave. So maybe if you have an example where you said, okay, this is their brand stand, this is how they behave, this is how they prove it, I think that would be helpful to our audience today. 

Warren: 

So I’ll tell you what the first thing, I think the way I would unpack that is the first thing I do when I take an advisory or a board seat on, and I used to do it when I was in the agency business too, is exactly what you’re talking about. Even your doctor’s office, everybody’s got those laminated plastic or frame thing in the waiting room. And the first thing I say is before I even come in the building is I’ll always say, listen, I just want to let you know, I want access to your people and I’m going to talk to them. And some of the answers I get may not be the ones you want to hear. And typically, Linda, three things happen, broad strokes. One is I’ll walk up to someone and I’ll say, from the receptionist to the loading dock, to the packing people, to the customer service, I’ll say, so I understand you have a mission statement, purpose statement, whatever they call it, vision statement, and what do you think? And I get one of three answers. One is I’ll get a look because this is one-on-one, me walking around. Or sometimes in a small room, I’ll get one of three things. One is, we do. That scares the bejeebers out of me because obviously they don’t even know that there is one. 

And that’s a leadership issue because it’s not being communicated through the organization and inspiring people. The second one is, which I think in some respects is almost as disturbing to me, is they’ll get a verbatim recital, almost like they’re reciting the 10 commandments with nothing in it other than just it’s memory. And then the third, which is when I really think, okay, this organization’s got something going for it, is when you get that passionate response that’s not reciting the points, but they are telling you what they stand for, what the company is and what their role in it is. And they may not articulate it the way that laminated piece of paper did, but boy, oh boy, are they believers. And if you don’t start with internal belief, I don’t think you can ever have external buy-in. 

Linda: 

Yeah. No, I think that’s a great, has to start from the top. So that sort of gives us a little bit of the framework of what it runs on. So when we talk about share of heart, everyone in marketing knows the share of the voice, the share of the wallet, and you’re actually arguing for something else. So are there ways that metrics can play into this, maybe tracking whether it’s working or not? 

Warren: 

Again, back to the question, we all learned, and I think they’re still teaching today the same thing. There’s share of mind, so think of me. When you’re out to consider buying something, so think of me, share of mine, think of me first if we’re doing better, that’s obviously top of mind. Share of wallet, we’re all measured on because if we’re not getting more business than our competition, we’re fired. A long time ago, I sort of thought about it and I said, if I can get them to think of me, think of me first, the way I’m going to get them to do business with me is if we can actually get them to like us. And in essence, in simple terms, that’s what share of heart is. It’s building a bit of a, and it’s overused emotional connection and all that. 

But you have brands, people have brands they like. I mean, Apple, Costco, I mean, there’s brands that people just. And they’re very different companies and for very different reasons. A lot of it is sort of back to the first question about saying what you do and doing what you say and delivering and realizing that it’s about the customer, not you. So share of heart is when you sort of transcend thought and get people to just believe that you’re there. And I think that also takes away some of the, I have to be the cheapest, I have to be the fastest. You obviously can’t be the most expensive, but they’ll forgive you things if they’re loyal to you. And loyalty is a big part of share of heart. 

Linda: 

True. I think with our audience, they’re running sort of these lean budgets. They might not have nine figure budgets. So you’ve advised a lot of the Fortune 500 giants and sort of the scrappy startups. And you’ve watched some of the small teams, much bigger ones on emotional loyalty. What can a leader with like no budget, as an example, do this week to start earning that share of heart that we’re talking about today? 

Warren: 

Sounds trite, but the simplest answer I could give you is have an absolute relentless focus on the customer and realize, in some respects, I almost think that the person who has one store and maybe their family or very small groups of employees, team members look after people, it’s almost easier to do that because it’s almost harder to permeate that kind of philosophy and strategy through a bigger organization. So I would say it’s not about money to me. I mean, awareness can be bought. There’s no two ways about it. Whether you have the money or not, awareness can be bought. And today, the cost of awareness is almost attention to detail as much as it is mass media. I mean, online, social, influencers, all that stuff. And I think that while awareness can be bought, trust can’t. I mean, trust is a human emotion and I think that it’s earned. 

So to me, the way I say it is awareness can be bought, trust has to be earned or belief has to be earned. 

Linda: 

And that’s a great point. So that’s going to move nicely into my next point, which is I’m going to push back on that a little bit because I think to your point, wisdom is that trust that is very slow. You have to earn it over years. It’s like one interaction at a time. You have to prove yourself, but you argue a leader can start building trust immediately right now. You’re talking about doing what they say, say what they do. They’ve got to get everybody on the same page internally to get that done, right? Not everybody sort of aligns. Do you have any strategies or thoughts to be able to get that done? 

Warren: 

Yes. I think it’s all about the customer interaction. I mean, I’ll give you an example, a personal example. We went on a safari a couple of years ago and they give you all these things that you have to not pack too much and you have to be able to put your life for three weeks into a 35-pound bag because that’s just how you get around. I had never been to an REI in my life. I would say that the experience I had, the helpfulness of the staff, kind of in an REI, if you’re listening, forgive me, but the oddball nature of the people who work there, but oddball in the most positive way, I mean, they love the lifestyle of camping and outdoors. They had everything I wanted. So it was a one-time shopping experience and I think that they earned it just by that. 

Now, if I had gone back there and it was a bad experience, well, the trust gets challenged. So I think you can start it with the first experience. And if people really enjoy that first experience, you’re on the way. It’s almost like the opposite. You can trust, yes, long-term loyalty, you have to be there on a long-term basis and make sure that every single time you’re in contact with the consumer or your customer, you deliver on your promises. But I think you can also start it at the beginning by offering an experience that someone says, I mean, I’ve told so many people that story because they weren’t even on my radar until I was forced in their store. So I think it can happen single transaction or certainly over time. Over time is harder for sure because you have so many breakpoints, right? 

Linda: 

Yeah, absolutely. That’s actually a great point. So if we talk about a little bit about the mindset, because culture drives brand, right? And branding’s about how a company might behave or respond. It’s not just like you said, it’s not about what the brand says. So they get to connect the two. So how do the people inside the organization end up shaping what a customer feels on the outside without deciding on its purpose? Because I think sometimes you have differing viewpoints of what the company should stand for versus what the company says it stands for. So kind of getting those connects put together. 

Warren: 

So I would say two things to that. One is an organization that really has a good culture. I think it goes, and I hate even putting it bottom up, top down, because I think they’re equal. And obviously the way you articulate it, if you go top down, bottom up, it sounds like you’re delineating. And you are to some degree because to your point, I mean, the leadership has to set the tone. But then I think the best leaders I’ve ever met, whether they’re running a handful of people or whether they’re running thousands of people, the best leaders I’ve ever met realize that the most important medium they have is their internal audience and making sure that they understand what the company stands for, where it’s going, and that they’re empowered to deliver on the promise. So I think that to me, that’s the first part is culture starts within. It doesn’t start on the street. You don’t say, “Hey, I’m a really nice guy.” Prove it to me. Be a nice guy. 

And in everything you do, if you say from the website to the physical presence, to how you articulate things, to the balance, and I know we’ll probably get to it, but the balance between technology and humanity. I mean, all of those things are part of culture, but I think that the best organizations have an ability to realize that the most important people in their culture story are the people who are going to deliver it. And that’s the people who are in contact with the consumer, be it digitally or physically. So I think it starts top down, bottom up is how I would answer that. 

Linda: 

Awesome. Okay. And then do you have one number one takeaway for our audience today before I start getting into some rapid-fire questions? 

Warren: 

Focus, focus, focus on the customer, customer, customer, because they are what matters the most. And a part of that obviously is identifying who is a potential customer of yours. So I think that’s in part of your business plan. Why do we have a right to do this? Who’s going to accept it from us? And then once you’ve got that, you have your target customer, it’s just a relentless focus on the customer because the rest of it doesn’t matter. If they don’t get it and they don’t see it and they don’t buy it in the way of accepting it, then they’re not going to buy it in the way of purchasing it. So that’s the biggest advice I always have is just find every single way you can to get into the customer’s head and make sure that you’re saying what you do and doing what you say. 

Linda: 

Okay, that’s perfect. So before I let you go, I’d love to get some what I call rapid fire questions out there. So you have to answer it in one sentence, maybe two. 

Warren: 

Well, I’ve been accused of not talking in sound bites, so I apologize. I’ll do my best. Here we go. 

Linda: 

Give me a brand today that has a real share of heart and one that lost it. 

Warren: 

I could list a few. I was just actually editing in my mind. So if I would say Apple is a good example, I’m going to say them too, Patagonia, Costco. I mean, they’re all very different, but yes, I blew my sentence answer here. And lost it? I would actually go to some of the legacy mattress companies who had a lot of history and then the Caspers, the Purples and all that came around and disrupted it by being more customer-focused. 

Linda: 

Okay, awesome. The most overrated marketing metric? 

Warren: 

I would probably say awareness, but obviously I’m not saying awareness isn’t important. I’m saying awareness unto itself isn’t the answer. 

Linda: 

Okay. And one word for what Toys “R” Us should have done differently? 

Warren: 

Evolve. 

Linda: 

Evolve. Okay. The brand you personally are most loyal to and you can’t explain why. 

Warren: 

I’d probably say Costco. 

Linda: 

Okay. And then I’ll have you finish this sentence. Customers forgive almost anything except… 

Warren: 

Misleading them, lying, not delivering. More than one word, I apologize, but it’s how my mind, my mind works in rapid fire sometimes. Sorry. 

Linda: 

Yeah, that’s great. I hope people can take one thing from today and it’s really like awareness can be bought, but connection and trust definitely has to be earned. It’s got to be part of the process for all of these brands. So I would love for you to share where anyone can get in touch with you and maybe if they want to go deeper on this. 

Warren: 

The easiest way would be my website is shareofheart.com. The dotcom’s not there, but Share of Heart, just all the three words merged together. That’ll also link to the book. It links to Shadow Branding. It’s basically my landing pad, if you will. I’m also pretty active on LinkedIn and I can’t say I’ll answer everybody, but I really do try and I think I’m running about 95 plus percent of getting back to people other than if they just want to sell me something. And it doesn’t just have to be CEOs or C-level people. I mean, like you, I’m sure, I distinctly remember growing up in the business and having access to people sometimes is an important thing. So on LinkedIn, it’s just Warren Kornblum, my name. If they want, sorry, crash commercial, but that’s the book. I would love them to read it. A lot of what we’ve talked about is in Notes from the Brand Stand. 

Yeah, I would say that it’s shareofheart.com, LinkedIn, book is available kind of wherever online books are sold and through people like you. 

Linda: 

Awesome. All right. So you heard it today. So you can find [email protected] and on LinkedIn, it’s Warren Kornblum. It’s K-O-R-N-B-L-U-M. And he has put a lot of this thinking into his books, so definitely pick that up. I think that will be helpful for you to learn a little bit more about this strategy. So for everyone listening today, if you like what you heard, please like, share, or subscribe. We’d love to hear from you and thank you for listening to the B2B Brand180 Podcast. 

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